Top 7 Hidden Gems in Northern Norway with Joël Schwalenstöcker

Introduction

Jason: Hey, Jason here with ZeroToTravel.com. Welcome to the show. Thanks for being here, letting me bring a little travel into your ears today. This, of course, is the show to help you travel the world on your terms. And we’ve got Joël Schwalenstöcker here. You might wonder about that name and think, that doesn’t sound very Norwegian. It’s a crazy story how he ended up growing up in Northern Norway. And I love to tap locals for these episodes. And look, he talked about the feedback loop there where you get on, you start doing the research, and a lot of the same places come up. That’s why I bring you these episodes. Don’t tell anybody, because you’re in the know. These hidden gem episodes, they’re deep recommendations from locals. So get ready to take some notes. This is great because this applies to all seasons. The thing about Northern Norway is many people travel up there in the winter as well to see the northern lights. And of course in the summer months too. And I haven’t spent a lot of time up in Northern Norway really. So I had a blast recording this one and bringing you these lesser-known places to visit in Northern Norway. I think some of them are going to surprise you. And here’s something really cool. Joël is giving you a cheat sheet. It’s got 100 stays and restaurants away from the noise in Norway. If you go to noraventura.com/unlisted, use the promo code ZERO at checkout, just for the listeners of this show. You’ll be able to grab that, and we’ll link up to that in the show notes. Stick around on the back end. I’ll leave you with a quote to wrap this one up, which I think is apropos. For now, please enjoy my conversation with Joël. Thanks for listening, and I’ll see you on the other side, my friend.

Welcome and Why Joël Reached Out

Jason: Joël Schwalenstöcker. Joël Schwalenstöcker. Yeah, it doesn’t make sense, does it? From Northern Norway. Welcome to the Zero to Travel podcast, my friend. What a treat to have you up here. We’re in person in my living room. I’m so glad you agreed to do this. So thank you.

Joël: My pleasure. My pleasure.

Jason: Well, we connected because you sent me a message on email and you’re like, hey, I’m aware of your podcast. Basically, I live in Oslo and I used to, or I do work in the music industry, and now I’m kind of sort of transitioning a bit into travel, and you sort of did the reverse thing. Like, I was in the music industry for a little bit and then got more into the travel stuff with Zero to Travel and everything. And you’re like, there’s just too many synchronicities here, basically. So we decided to just meet up for a coffee, and now we’ve met up a few times. And, you know, you grew up in Northern Norway, and I’m like, well, this is a special area of Norway that I feel like people are really only aware of the main extreme places, let’s call them. Because of course, Northern Norway has the midnight sun and the northern lights, which is what brings a lot of people up there. But there’s so much more. You grew up there. You’re a travel expert, because we’re going to talk about your own personal history traveling. But just share quickly, because we were talking before we recorded, you talked about the takeaways you wanted people to have coming from this episode. So I think you should just share that right up front so people know what they’re getting today.

Joël: Well, when they search Norway or Northern Norway in particular, when I mention these places, I want them to just see the images and see the places and think, oh, these are amazing alternatives to where everyone else is going. And I think that’s sort of what I want people to realize, that there’s so much more undiscovered, wild, crazy adventures to be had in Northern Norway, where you’re not going to just stand in line with everyone else and have the same sort of selfie photo from the same viewpoint. So that’s sort of what I want everyone to get from this, hopefully.

Jason: Yeah. I mean, that’s right in line, I think, with what people here love to hear. And it’s so easy on the surface when you’re planning a trip to kind of end up at those places. And one of the things you talked about before we recorded is, hey, I basically want people to find the places that they’re not going to find if they’re just Googling or even going into the AI search and all that kind of stuff. And that’s the local perspective that you bring. So let’s just, before we dive into some of the hidden gems and talk about tourism in Northern Norway and how we can help you avoid some of the crazy tourism going on there, I want to hear a bit more, or I want people to hear a bit more, about your background in travel. Because when you say you worked in the music industry, I mean, you were traveling around quite a bit doing what you were doing. Talk about your experience traveling around Norway and places around the world.

Growing Up on a Boat and Booking Artists

Joël: Well, actually, it starts before me. It starts with my parents.

Jason: Yeah.

Joël: And so, just a little origin story of my name as well. I’m a guy called Joël Schwalenstöcker coming from Northern Norway, and…

Jason: Sounds German.

Joël: It is, it is. And French.

Jason: Exactly.

Joël: My dad’s German, my mom’s French. They’ve got nothing to do with Norway, but they met in Finland, or actually they met in Norway, and then they traveled to Finland in the 60s and 70s and bought a sailboat. And it was an old, like a sand boat, working and transporting sand on the Finnish lakes. And then they rebuilt it and redid it into a houseboat so we could live on it. And they spent, I guess, 10, 15 years sailing around Scandinavia. And they went to France for a while. And then my dad had this dream. He wanted to go to Svalbard. For those who don’t know what Svalbard is, it’s an island, a group of islands, almost at the North Pole.

Jason: But it’s Norwegian. So it’s at like, I don’t know, like 82.

Joël: Special place. It’s really, really special. This was like the late 70s. They started sailing from France. And then I think they were a bit broke and they were arguing a little bit. They had crew that were coming on and jumping off in random ports along the way. They basically spent too much time off the Norwegian coast. And coming to a city called Tromsø, where I’m from, they were broke and it was the autumn already. So they couldn’t sail up, because they wouldn’t be back before the winter storms. So they spent the winter in Tromsø, working, making some money, and then they just never left. You know, because they fell in love with the area, or I don’t know, maybe my dad probably liked my mom less. She wanted to go back to France. And this was like ’79. My oldest brother was born in ’82. So I guess they just started having kids and settling down a bit. Yeah, I lived my first six or seven years on this boat. It was a hundred-foot sailboat, seven sails, it’s a huge thing. A wooden boat. So I lived my first seven years on that boat, and then, you know, later we moved into a house, and it just became the place we grew up, with a French mom and a German dad, speaking French at home. And I guess that’s sort of the adventurous side of me and the traveling, the wanderlust in me. It must come from something, probably my dad. But then, you know, I never really thought about where I’m living, if it… you know, there’s the scenery, the nature, which is sort of our playground. And I wanted to go into music. I started playing instruments and I started working with production, et cetera, et cetera. Many years later, I became an agent, and I’ve been doing that for close to 20 years now, 15, 17 years or something. So I’ve been booking artists’ tours and their shows around Norway and around Scandinavia for a fair amount of years, traveling and seeing places where there are festivals, where there are concerts, where there’s stuff happening. And then I just realized that, you know what, I’m doing this for all these artists. And at the same time, I love traveling myself. And I spend every bit of spare time I have on Google Maps, just looking at places that I could go where I would take my kids and have an amazing adventure and, you know, create some new memories. And then I just realized, you know what, tourism in Norway is sort of backwards these days, I think. It’s booming. There’s so many people coming, especially to Northern Norway, especially to the city I’m from. But, you know, I think everyone’s going to the same places, and there’s so much more alternative. And when I go abroad, for example, I’m looking for the places that I want people to discover in Norway, the places where there’s someone that has thought it through, curated something special that’s bound to the place and to the territory and to the people and maybe also to some culture and some history. Doesn’t have to be hyper-Norwegian. But there’s someone that’s created something of quality that isn’t for the masses, but for those that know where to look. I think that’s sort of the places I’m looking for. And that was sort of a mission that I found, like, you know what, I could do this for Northern Norway, because I’m seeing where everyone’s going. And it’s like, if you just go 15 minutes that way, you’ll be on your own. It can be crazy that 15 minutes from where you are can be a completely different experience, but you just have to know about it.

Where to Find Noraventura

Jason: Before we dive into some of the recommendations, where can people get in touch with you if they want to connect after the show and get some of your advice around travel in Northern Norway? Do you have…

Joël: So my platform’s called Noraventura, which is, it’s not a Norwegian name, but it’s sort of an international name of adventures in Norway.

Jason: Yeah.

Joël: So it’s noraventura.com, or [email protected]. I’m not really, you know, too much on the content side of things. I try to keep more in the background. I guess it’s something I just have from also being in the music industry. I’m not on stage. I’m in the crowd looking at my artists, but everyone here is here because of me. And I know that, but no one else does. I kind of like that feeling. And I guess it’s the same approach with this. It’s like, I’m not holding people’s hands on the adventures. I just want to help them get there.

Getting Starstruck in the Music Industry

Jason: Yeah, fair enough. Have you ever been fully starstruck with one of the artists you work with? Can you share? So you’ve just been like, I do this professionally and this is fine, this is what I do, but, oh man, I can’t believe that person’s right there. Because you’ve worked with some big artists, I imagine.

Joël: Yeah, mostly Norwegian and Scandinavian artists. And I know I don’t get starstruck. It’s weird. I have this respect for people and their privacy in a way that I don’t really see them. I see them, but even…

Jason: Even inside, you were just like, oh.

Joël: I think it’s cool, maybe, to have, like, they’re in my contact list or something like that. It’s mostly, you know, it used to be to show off to my friends, but not being starstruck in their presence. No, because I see that they’re just people, and they just want to be by themselves. And it’s the same, I think, with international artists as well. It’s like, they just want to be left alone.

Jason: Of course. Yeah. I mean, you’re professional. I have had moments backstage where I’ve been completely sort of blown away by who I’m in front of and trying to keep my cool, but inside I’m like, oh my God.

Joël: Yeah. Well, my wife, I met my wife in the music industry. She also works in the live industry, and she has had a lot, because she’s worked for some bigger international companies than I have. I’ve been working close to the artists’ teams, so locally in Norway and Scandinavia, but she’s been doing, like, promoting the global shows. She told me one time, Bruce Springsteen was playing in Norway. And he was playing in a city called Trondheim in the middle of Norway. And he wanted to say something in Norwegian to them. And then, you know, she was the closest person from the local team.

Jason: Hey, how do I say it?

Joël: Yeah, exactly. “Could you come in here?” So she sat in a little meeting room with him. It’s like, “Can you teach me five or six sentences in Norwegian?” So she sat 20 minutes with him, teaching him some stupid stuff to say from stage. So those kinds of experiences are pretty fun. But I’ve been mostly on the creative side with the artist, making strategies and their plans and booking their tours.

Jason: Yeah.

Joël: So I’m more in the background, but I guess that’s where I enjoy to be.

Jason: Nice.

What Makes Northern Norway Different

Jason: Well, talk about Northern Norway. And first, I thought we could just talk about what that means geographically, because obviously it’s in the north of Norway. But as you mentioned, Svalbard is not a part of it. I read that Northern Norway makes up about 35% of the Norwegian mainland. I mean, you could just tell us what makes it different from the rest of the country, in terms of maybe that’s culturally, politically. It’s, you know, it’s not just the north of a country. It’s sort of its own thing. I mean, people say, I’m from Northern Norway. That means something. What does that mean?

Joël: Well, you’re touching on different things, and we can take the geographical part first. Northern Norway is three counties. It’s Nordland, Northland, it’s Troms, and Finnmark. Those three counties, that’s Northern Norway by definition. And also, you know, so that’s sort of the geographical part of it. But Northern Norway, I guess the major differences from a nature perspective is the light. Is that in Northern Norway, you have the midnight sun in the summer and you have the auroras in the winter, the northern lights. Did I say the midnight sun and northern lights?

Jason: Yes. Exactly.

Joël: And, you know, you can get northern lights in southern Norway. You do get brighter summers, obviously, in southern Norway, but you don’t get a sun that never sets.

Jason: That’s such a wild way to grow up.

Joël: Exactly. But not all of Northern Norway does get technical midnight sun, because the sun does actually set south of the Arctic Circle. So the Arctic Circle is sort of crossing the middle of Nordland, which is the southern county of Northern Norway. So when you get to about Bodø, that’s where you cross the Arctic Circle and you go into actual midnight sun territory. A really interesting part, because everything is branded Arctic in Northern Norway. But if you go to, I guess, the same latitude in Canada or in Russia, you’re freezing to death. Not in summer necessarily, but the temperatures are way, way, way lower in the winter. Norway has this, and I’m sure everyone knows, something called the Gulf Stream, which is a stream of warm waters coming from the Caribbean Gulf, crossing the Atlantic, and then drifting up towards Norway and crossing over the top of Norway, which means that the waters are actually quite warm compared to the latitude we’re at. Which means that Northern Norway, even if technically it’s in the Arctic, it’s not really an Arctic climate. You get like 25 degrees in the summer and you get minus, I guess, 10, 15, 20 minus. Talking Celsius.

Jason: Celsius.

Joël: Celsius, yeah, sorry. And that, you know, that’s why there’s fisheries there. There’s local communities that are, you know, buzzing and growing, and it’s been there for thousands of years, because it’s actually a pretty decent place to live.

Jason: Yeah. And I’m guessing, I haven’t been to northern Russia or northern Canada, but from what I’ve seen, it’s not really densely populated because it’s so harsh.

Joël: Yeah. So Northern Norway is, you know, a mild climate compared to the latitude. And I guess the light is what sets it apart from the rest of Norway. And for me, actually, I can tell a little story. I went a couple of years ago, me and my wife and my kids, we were on holiday in July in southern Norway. And the weather in southern Norway was 13 degrees Celsius and windy and rainy. And I was like, this isn’t really summer. And then we saw there’s a high pressure coming up into Norway that, like, the sun’s going to come to Northern Norway now. Okay, so how far can we get by car before the kids go crazy?

Jason: You were racing the sun?

Joël: Yeah, we were racing the sun and our kids’ sort of patience.

Jason: And your kids’ attitudes.

Joël: Exactly. And then I was like, okay, we can go for two days straight. If we drive, we’re going to get to the southern Nordland part. And for me, it’s where the sandy beaches start. That’s also very particular of Northern Norway. Sandy beaches on the outsides of the coast, you have all the way up Northern Norway. But they start just after you cross into Nordland, you have the sandy beaches. And that for me is like, but then I’m home. Okay. That’s when I’m home. You get sandy beaches and cold waters. That’s Northern Norway for me. And then we went on the second day. We didn’t really get as far as we wanted to. And we had to settle for a campsite with a bunch of camper vans and tourists and people, and I was like, oh no, this isn’t it. It was 32 degrees Celsius. It was a beautiful summer night. I was like, imagine if we had just been on a sandy beach right now. That would be so perfect. And I was so moody. And my wife got really angry. I was like, no, this is no one’s fault. Why are you upset and making a big deal out of it? And I was like, no, but imagine. This wasn’t what I imagined. And then the next day, we finally get into Nordland. We went to this island called Vega. And we got to this sandy beach, and I just took off my shoes and went into the water, and it’s like, oh, this is Northern Norway. And we pitched our tent and we stayed there for a week, and it was just heaven.

Wild Camping and Norway’s Right to Roam

Jason: That’s sweet. And it’s, of course, you have camping rights here, wild camping.

Joël: Yeah.

Jason: And there are some rules around that. I think it’s 100 meters from, or is it 300? I can’t remember.

Joël: I haven’t read the actual law, but there is, if it’s a culture or actually put into writing in the law, I don’t know. There’s something in Norway called Allemannsretten, every man’s right. Probably not the greatest translation. But it basically means that you’re allowed to roam wherever you want. It’s the freedom to roam. Even private property. So you’re not allowed in Norway, for example, to build fences on beaches. Everyone’s supposed to have free access to the beach and be able to stroll the beach as they wish. Even when crossing your private property. Which also makes it really easy for campers and tents. You can go wherever you want, as long as, obviously, there’s no reason to camp close to someone’s house or in the garden, but you’re free to roam wherever you want, which makes traveling really easy.

Jason: Yeah. You could look at it as a logistical challenge anytime you go somewhere. But if you kind of reframe that and think about, in this example, all of Norway, the ability to just kind of roam and pitch a tent anywhere. If you have the gear or you can rent the gear when you get here, it does make it easy in that way. You’re not really ever going to lack for a place to stay. You might have to deal with some weather. You’re certainly going to have to deal with some light. Try sleeping in a tent when the sun never goes down. But, you know, put a blindfold over your eyes. Bring a blindfold.

The Problem With Mass Tourism in Northern Norway

Jason: Why do you think it’s important to encourage people to visit some of these different places? I don’t think people that are listening are necessarily following what is going on in tourism in Norway. But recently, as you mentioned, there has been what may be described as an overload of people in these hotspot areas in Northern Norway, whether it’s during the winter for the northern lights or for the midnight sun in the summer travel season. And it’s gotten a bit insane. And from the local perspective, I mean, you’ve been up there, you know this whole area, and we’re going to get into your sort of list of recommendations in a moment. But I guess I’m bringing this up because I want to sort of hammer home this point of, take these recommendations. And if you’re listening and you want to go to Northern Norway after this, run with these ideas. Because if you end up in the sort of mass tourism bubble, it may not be as enjoyable of an experience. And you can have a perhaps enhanced experience just by having… I mean, there’s a lot of room up there.

Joël: Yeah.

Jason: To roam, right? So why kind of slot yourself in with the thousands of other people coming on tour buses and things like that when you don’t have to? So, yeah. Can you just talk about sort of the scene with mass tourism? What are the effects on the locals? And…

Joël: Well, Northern Norway is bigger, is emptier, is wilder than the south. You know, everyone’s seen the photographs from the fjords in western Norway. But up north, it’s a different country. But you have these hotspots that have been created for no really great reason, actually, because the alternatives are just as beautiful. But especially the city I’m from. When I grew up, I used to work at an Arctic center. It was like a park, sort of like almost an aquarium, but also with an Arctic museum part of it. And I was just looking at these people coming in with the boat that’s coming up and down the Norwegian coast, which is called Hurtigruten. And they bring a lot of tourists to all these small cities around the coast, and they would come every day, and they went to the center and they would stand in line, take the same pictures, and then leave back to the boat. And they hadn’t really seen anything. They hadn’t really seen any of Northern Norway. Maybe they didn’t want to, but for anyone that wants to, there’s so much room up there to roam. And there’s so many beautiful places to see. And now with the boom of tourism, especially in Northern Norway, it’s never been easier to Google it and find places to go. But it’s the same names popping up everywhere. In Northern Norway, Lofoten. Everyone knows Lofoten. In southern Norway, probably Geirangerfjord is one of the top three search hits. And the Tromsø northern lights routes. So the circuit around Tromsø for northern lights in January, February is completely going crazy, especially with tourists from Asia, but also European and American tourism. So all these places sit at the top of every list and every feed and all the pictures and everything. It looks amazing. And that creates sort of a feedback loop that results in crowds and just not that pleasant an experience. And for me, you’re not really getting the essence of a place. And I’m not saying you need to interact with people. You need to learn about the history and the culture and all this. Just not getting the experience that I think is there. It’s up for grabs. And many times I think that experience is a lot cheaper as well. You just need to know where to look. And it’s hard because all these algorithms, it’s all driven by algorithms. And it’s hard to sort of work against algorithms. I think it’s probably impossible.

Jason: Yeah. Even in this day and age, the perception, I think, of the internet and social media and everything out there is that you can get information on all of these places, but I’m still finding, through all these conversations we’ve had in destinations, that there is a certain element of local knowledge that just isn’t available in the same way on the internet. It’s just not. Or it’s very hard to find, or it’s hard to curate for yourself, which is why I like to do these episodes featuring local experts. So let’s hear some of these places, so people can get an idea and a taste for some of those, let’s call them off the beaten track or, you know, hidden gem, whatever you want to call them. Insert whatever term you want here. I always like to use hidden gem. And we like to bring true hidden gems. And I know you’ve got some here. So what do you have for us? How do you want to do this?

Joël: Well, I want to preface this with that there’s nothing wrong with the beautiful places that everyone knows. For example, Lofoten and the rest of those places are extraordinary.

Jason: It’s iconic for a reason.

Joël: It’s iconic for a reason. But Norway is small. The roads are small. The villages, towns are small. So there’s not that much room. And if you want to have an experience on your own with the people you want to travel with, not everyone else, and be on their itinerary, but be on your own, then you should probably look elsewhere. And there’s places just as beautiful as Lofoten, for example. So I brought a couple of my favorites.

Jason: How many do you have for us today?

Joël: I got five.

Jason: Nice.

Joël: And they’re sort of different, but they’re all…

Jason: We like different.

Joël: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hidden Gem One: Helgeland

Joël: So, the first thing, and the recommendation I’m telling all my friends these days, is don’t go to Lofoten. Go to a place called Helgeland. So Helgeland is a coastal strip south of Lofoten. It’s in the county of Nordland. It’s basically, if you look at a map of Norway, Norway has a big bulb at the bottom and then it’s got a head at the top. This thin strip in the middle, right in the middle of Norway, that’s Helgeland. It’s the coast of Helgeland. And it looks like just a place you’re going to drive through to get to Lofoten or get to the very top of Norway. But if you go out to the coast, it’s amazing. It’s got the longest sandy beaches. It’s got the same mountains that you have in Lofoten, and there’s no one there. It’s like people are just driving past. And we went there. This is the island, among others, that I mentioned, Vega, that we went to. It’s a UNESCO World Heritage Site, but not many people are going there. Obviously, there’s some people, but it’s nothing like Lofoten. We went to Lofoten last year with my family. And it’s like, why are we here? We had to stand in line to find a place to pitch our tent. It doesn’t make any sense. Helgeland is empty. And it’s got thousands of small islands. Helgeland is probably the favorite place in Norway to kayak, if you’re into that kind of stuff. But it’s also got the sea-to-summit mountains where you can walk to a peak from the beach and go up 1,500 meters. It’s got cities, not that interesting. It’s mostly the nature. And it’s got some beautiful restaurants and small cabins where you can stay on the coast. So Helgeland is my peak recommendation for Norway for people that want to avoid the crowds.

Jason: Yeah, I love it. The idea of having a beach vacation in Norway might not be something that most people have thought of. And we actually had a bit of one last year because we were up in Leka. We went to the island of Leka. And there’s one of the most beautiful beaches I’ve ever been on there. We only crossed through a little tiny strip of Northern Norway to get there. And then we were out of Northern Norway. So I can’t really say I was properly in Northern Norway. But I’m only bringing this up because of the idea that you can actually spend some days on the beach, depending on the weather, and even if the weather’s not cooperating, it’s just… I don’t think, even though we have so much coastline here, I think when people genuinely think of Norway, they’re not thinking about sitting on a sandy beach in Norway.

Joël: No, and that’s what’s unique about it. And you know what? Both of us live in the Oslo area. And the one thing I miss here is, what do you call it, the vistas. Actually being able to see for miles and miles and miles in any direction. Just have the open sea or have landscapes that are stretching out in front of you. All of Northern Norway is like that. And Helgeland is one of those places where you can sit on a sandy beach and you have a mountain peak right behind you. And if you look out, you’ve got this midnight sun just setting and touching the ocean. You know, across that place, you’re in America. There’s nothing between you and them.

Jason: Epic.

Joël: So it’s really, really unique. It’s got some highlights. Obviously, it’s got a mountain range called the Seven Sisters, which is seven different peaks around the city of Sandnessjøen. I would recommend people flying into Sandnessjøen, by the way. It’s the hub for experiencing that whole area.

Hidden Gem Two: Træna

Joël: Okay, so my second recommendation is actually also part of Helgeland, but it’s so remote that it’s not really connected. It’s a small group of islands called Træna. It’s, you know, probably relatively famous.

Jason: T-R-A-N-A?

Joël: Yeah, well, so the Norwegian alphabet has three extra letters, so it’s actually an A and an E.

Jason: Oh, yeah.

Joël: T-R-A-E-N-A. But you would write it, in English, you’d write T-R-E-N-A.

Jason: Træna.

Joël: Yeah, which has got a fairly famous music festival in the summer that brings a lot of people, a lot of cultural stuff going on for a whole week on those small islands. But it’s like 60 kilometers out to sea. So you can only reach it by boat. It’s a tiny community. There’s like 400 or 500 islands, but only three of them are inhabited. Or four, I’m sorry. And there’s 450 people living there year-round. But it’s one of the oldest fishing communities in Northern Norway. And I think it’s been inhabited for almost 10,000 years or something like that. Which sounds crazy, but I think it’s close to true. And especially, you know, if you look at this festival called Trænafestivalen, they use most of the island as their scenery and the background for the music and the performances. There’s a big cave called Kirkehelleren, which basically means it’s almost like a church. So it’s like a natural church, and they put up concerts in there. And there’s been loads of international artists that have played in there.

Jason: Incredible.

Joël: And Træna is just an amazing place. And actually this year, if you’re sort of not into camping, but you still want to see these places, there’s a new hotel opening called Ytri, Y-T-R-I, which is opening in Træna. So it’s a bespoke, really, really beautiful hotel that’s opening on the islands. And you can see the view you have from those rooms is just amazing. So you’re out in the middle of the ocean, and then you have these, in Træna also, you know, even the islands aren’t flat. You’ve got mountains on these tiny, tiny islands. There’s big peaks. So it’s really a unique place. And, you know, even for Norwegians, it’s quite exotic.

Jason: Yeah. Wow. And that’s saying something.

Concerts Under the Midnight Sun

Jason: Musical performances in natural settings always get me. I’ve had the pleasure of going to some festivals and seeing… I mean, that’s what makes places like Red Rocks so iconic and famous, right? You’re in this beautiful, natural setting. You have music in front of you. What a moment you can have.

Joël: And that’s what I’ve seen so many times in my work as an agent, is that the places you can go to and discover both the music and the scenery at the same time, it’s so much more powerful than just being on a stage in the city somewhere.

Jason: It is, and you can see the natural environment impacting the artist and their performance as well. That thing you mentioned, the feedback loop earlier, it’s something like that, some kind of positive feedback loop that goes on where everybody’s just feeding off the nature and the performance and the kind of moment you’re sharing together. It’s really an astounding thing.

Joël: Yeah. So there is one interesting aspect of that when doing concerts in Northern Norway, is that if there’s international acts especially coming to play, usually they have what they call a lighting rider, or a lights rider. So they basically describe what kind of lights they want on their stage to be able to put on a good show. But they don’t realize that there’s going to be sun all night. You’re not going to see any lights. So you have to always explicitly explain, the sun does not set. So there’s no point in having all these lights. No one’s going to see the effect of them anyways. So you just have to realize that every artist probably wants to play at night, and it’s dark, and you have this crazy light show at 11 o’clock or something. Well, it’s going to be like two o’clock in the afternoon in the middle of the day, but it’s strange. It’s one o’clock at night or whatever. So that’s an interesting aspect. But if you lean into that, it’s so beautiful.

Jason: The midnight sun has always been a fascinating thing for me in terms of just the way you perceive time. It’s not something that everybody experiences. So obviously if you grew up there, but there’s a very small percentage of people in the world that have experienced that as part of their, say, their childhood, or they experience it on a day-to-day basis. Just such a bizarre thing to think that you go outside at two o’clock in the morning and the sun’s out, full-on, just, there’s the sun. It’s just like being in the middle of the day. It’s just a wild concept.

Joël: Yeah, there’s all this talk about, in health podcasts and health profiles, that talk about this circadian rhythm and trying to optimize your circadian rhythm. It’s like, well, I’m not sure you can in Northern Norway, because in the winter it’s all dark and in the summer it’s all light. We’ve got dusk in winter, but not much more than that. So I don’t know how your body actually responds to that. I don’t know, man.

Jason: I know I have a hard time sleeping in a tent when it’s so light, but you deal with it.

Joël: That’s probably because it keeps my kids up more than anything. Aren’t you tired of optimizing everything? It’s freaking exhausting.

Jason: That’s a side note. Okay, let’s move on to the third recommendation you have here.

Hidden Gem Three: Bleik in Vesterålen

Joël: So, going a bit further north. If you have a map, you’ll see the Lofoten Islands stretching out from the mainland of Norway like a little hook aiming southwest, I guess. But just north of that, you have a smaller hook that’s peeking north. That’s the area of Vesterålen. It’s actually linked to Lofoten geographically, because it’s part of the same islands that go out from the mainland.

Jason: Can you say it again?

Joël: Vesterålen. So V-E-S-T-E-R. And then an A. L-E-N. But in Norway, you put a little hat on that A, which makes it an O. Vesterålen.

Jason: Vesterålen.

Joël: So in Vesterålen, you have basically the same topography that you have in the Lofoten Islands. But the moment you turn right and everyone going to Lofoten turns left, you are on your own. There’s no one there. And there’s this little tiny village. It’s actually one of the only actual villages in Norway, called Bleik. Bleik means pale. And I’m pretty sure it refers to the beach at Bleik, because it’s one of the longest sandy beaches in Norway. It’s called Bleikstranna. It’s an absolutely amazing beach. And it’s looking straight out into the open ocean to the north or northwest. And right behind the beach you have a huge wall of mountains peeking up. So the little village is crammed between the beach and these mountains. And there’s small wooden houses there. And outside of Bleikstranna, you have a little island that sits offshore. It’s called Bleiksøya. It’s a cone-shaped island, uninhabited, but it’s a bird island about one kilometer out. And it’s a protected nature reserve, and it’s got Norway’s largest Atlantic puffin colony. And it’s just total tranquility. But you can surf there. You can go birdwatching. There’s also a lot of whales in the area and orcas. You can go on safaris. And obviously, you can just chill on the beach and have a barbecue. So Bleik is, you see all these beaches in Lofoten. They’re beautiful. But if you don’t want to share them with anyone, go to Bleik.

Jason: Do you think it’s necessary to reserve a place to stay in advance if you’re not camping in these places? Just as a general…

Joël: Definitely. There are enough Norwegians coming that you need to, because there are also fewer accommodations, of course.

Jason: Yeah. So fewer people, fewer accommodations, fewer options.

Joël: Yeah. And especially, you know, the gems, they’re still popular, but because they’re so small, you need to reserve in advance if you’re not camping. But, you know, I think if you’re camping or if you’re not, either way, you’ll get it. There’s a lot of Airbnbs where you just rent someone’s house, which is perfectly fine as well. You get the same view. There are houses in Bleik where people live. But for you, it’s going to be an amazing adventure.

Jason: Yeah. Nice.

Hidden Gem Four: Sommarøy

Joël: So, should I move on?

Jason: Yes. Yeah.

Joël: Yeah. So the next one is closer to home. This is, I guess, 40 minutes from where I grew up. And it’s going back to the city of Tromsø, T-R-O-M-S-O for all English speakers. And it’s probably going to be one of the first cities that pop up if you Google Northern Norway and travel. But if you want to stay in Tromsø, Tromsø is a nice little town. It’s on an island between the mainland and another larger island. It’s a nice little town, but it’s overcrowded. The main street of Tromsø, you’re not going to see any Norwegians there. It’s just going to be tourists taking pictures of the houses. It’s nice, but you know what I mean. So what we used to do when I was a kid, whenever the sun peeked out in summer. So this is obviously, all these recommendations are based on good weather. Because Northern Norway, obviously, you can have four seasons in a day. But those days in summer, when the sun peeks out, that’s when you need to go. So it’s hard to plan for, but if you have a little bit of window, you should be lucky.

Jason: You could be lucky.

Joël: So what we used to do when I was a kid, and the sun peeked out and it was 20-ish plus degrees, the water was still maybe 11 degrees Celsius, but we didn’t mind. We went out to a place called Sommarøy, which basically translates to Summer Island. But Summer Island used to be, I think the name came from that, the population out there used to live on the island next door, and they used to have their cattle and their sheep on this summer island in the summer. So it actually was like a grazing island. But Sommarøy is roughly an hour from Tromsø, and is linked to the larger island of Kvaløya, which means whale island, because there’s a lot of whales in the area, in the winter especially. It’s got about 300 residents. And it’s just full of these tiny, small, sandy-beached islands. And you have this little fishing village, so you can go out on fishing boats if you want. And you can tent, and there’s also a really cool hotel there where you can stay in an old fisherman’s cabin. And you can rent it, have it to yourself, like a self-service cabin. There’s a lot of kayaking. There’s also some peaks you can go up if you want to have the view. And I guess this is the same draw as many places in Northern Norway, is the views and the light and the beaches and the mountains in combination at the same time.

Jason: Right. So you’ve got these three different places, you’ve got Helgeland, you’ve got Bleik, and you’ve got Sommarøy, offering a little bit of the same thing.

Joël: Different regions, different flavors, different people. But those are, in three different regions, some really, really gems where you’re basically left on your own. There’s going to be some people there, but not compared to the busier points.

Jason: Yeah, that’s sweet. And then there’s, you know, renting an old fishing cabin, for example. That’s an experience in and of itself as well.

Joël’s Cheat Sheet of Places to Stay

Joël: Yes. I have, actually, we can maybe touch on that later. I have, as part of what I wanted to do, spent a lot of time researching places to stay. Really, really cool places. And maybe we can offer it to your listeners. I have a list of the coolest places in all of Norway to stay. Maybe we can offer it to your listeners.

Jason: Yeah, sure. Just let us know how to give it to them.

Joël: Just a little booklet with places you’re going to have to search a long time to find, but there are other top gems. Some five-star hotels, some campsites. There’s going to be everything in there.

Jason: Should they get in touch with you to get that, or how do you…

Joël: Yeah, they can get in touch with me at Noraventura, or, you know, we can offer it to your audience as a little treat. It’s going to be a sort of a way for people to research themselves. And then if they want me to help them actually take them there, you know, that’s where I come in.

Jason: Yeah. So this is just something like a booklet for people to get started on looking at what options there are. Okay. Well, give us the information or whatever. We’ll put it in the show notes so you guys have that.

Joël: Cool. Thank you. No, I’m happy to share.

Hidden Gem Five: Varangerhalvøya National Park

Joël: And we’re going to go to the last place here. And it needs a little bit of explanation, because there’s one point I haven’t mentioned about Northern Norway, which makes it also kind of unique. Northern Norway, and almost all of Northern Norway, is historically indigenous land as well, of the Sami people. So the Sami people are the indigenous peoples of Norway, Finland, Sweden, and Russia, actually, in the northern hemisphere. And the Sami people in Northern Norway are predominantly living in Finnmark, which is the northernmost county to the north. And my last recommendation is right at the eastern part of Finnmark, close to the border with Russia. Not many people realize Norway has a border with Russia in the northeastern part of Norway, northwestern part of Russia. So there’s a place there, there’s a national park actually called Varangerhalvøya. That’s a mouthful.

Jason: That’s a mouthful.

Joël: So halvøya means peninsula, half island. Varanger is the name.

Jason: I love some of these Norwegian translations. They’re so efficient. It’s like, half island. We’re just going to call it a half island. That’s a peninsula.

Joël: Okay. And here we’re in a totally different landscape. But this is wild. This isn’t somewhere you go if you’re going to expect a hotel or a place to have a shower. But it’s a crazy experience. So the national park was established in 2006, and it’s covering a huge area of the peninsula that’s almost like a tundra or like a plateau. So there’s no peaks, there’s no big mountains, but it’s full of rivers and small trails that are made by reindeer, so you’re going to follow reindeer tracks there. There are small cabins you can rent that were built actually during the Second World War, some of them, and now they’ve been restored and you can rent little cabins. But it’s a trekking area. It’s a fishing area. It’s got big rivers and these huge, what’s the word? We have these small islands in the river and it’s opening up and you can fish, and there’s a lot of birds and a lot of wildlife that you can experience. But this is wild country.

Jason: Yeah.

Joël: You can fly into Kirkenes or Vadsø in northeastern Norway. And then from there you need a car. So Varangerhalvøya is just a completely unique area. And obviously this is a summer destination, because in the winter it’s really, really cold and it’s really harsh. But it’s one of the best birdwatching destinations, for example, of Norway, if you’re interested in that. And I think just the fact that the tracks you’re following are reindeer tracks. It’s not made by a tractor. It’s not made even by humans.

Jason: Right. It’s made by Rudolph.

Joël: It’s made by Rudolph. So, if you’re on Google Maps, you can go to a place called Komagelva, K-O-M-A-G-E-L-V-A. It’s the Komag River. That’s where you should start your trek. And it’s very particular, I know, but just have a look at it and you’re going to fall in love with it.

Jason: Okay. Amazing. I’m ready to tackle this whole list right now. Should I grab my car keys or what do you think?

Joël: Well, the short answer is, I guess, yes.

Jason: I don’t know if our wives would appreciate that they would be alone with the kids if we just take off for a road trip right now. But no, this is awesome, man. I mean, these places sound incredible.

Planning a Trip: Renting a Car, Packing, and Mosquitoes

Joël: Well, I had a French family come up to me, or contact me online, to help them plan… They’re going on a holiday with their adult kids to celebrate their birthdays, like a milestone birthday. After every kid turned 20, they want to do a big major trip. And they wanted to spend two weeks in Norway and get the best of Norway. And they told me, “We’ll happily take Spartan if it’s real.” And I’m like, perfect. That’s exactly what I’m here for. It doesn’t need to be Spartan even. It just needs to be real. And for them, what we planned was a trip where they first got an east to west trip in southern Norway and then fly up to Tromsø and then take a car from there. Because if you have a car, you can go in any direction for 20 minutes and be on your own, as I said. So I think if you’re interested in avoiding the crowds, you need a car.

Jason: This was one of the things I was going to ask you. And as we kind of come out of the list and just to get a few extra travel tips, I was going to ask you about getting around. So rental car, pretty necessary, it sounds like, if you want to get off the beaten track. Any other tips like that in terms of things that can help you with your budget, or perhaps packing for, as you mentioned, four seasons in a day type of climate?

Joël: Yeah. Just something to be aware of, I think, just mentioning that people can get their heads around. I mean, wool layers are your friend in Norway. Wool layers are your friend, especially at nighttime. Even in summer, bring wool, bring windproof jackets. And if you’re hiking, obviously bring trekking boots. But normally it’s still pretty accessible. It’s not hard to find your way with a car. It’s not hard to drive. People, you know, the speed limit is really low in Norway because the roads are narrow. So I think the average speed limit in Norway is 70 kilometers per hour.

Jason: It’s always hard to go so slow.

Joël: Yeah, you go really slow. But it takes a lot of time because you have all these fjords and all these bridges and all these tunnels you need to cross and pass through. You can say it’s, I don’t know, 200 kilometers, but it takes you five hours.

Jason: Yeah.

Joël: Because you go really slow and the roads are winding. And maybe, you know, if you go to Lofoten, you’re going to be stuck probably in traffic with a lot of other people going to the same places. But if you go outside of that, you can be on your own. And for me, I think one of the biggest things to remember, a top tip, if you’re really going wilderness camping in Northern Norway, if you go to Finnmark, which is the northernmost county, Finnmark has a big plateau, which is like marshlands. And after the 20th of June, these areas get enormous amounts of mosquitoes. So in Finnmark, you have some of the best salmon fishing rivers in the world. And there’s people coming up there from all over the world to fish the rivers. But you’re fighting like eagle-sized mosquitoes. It’s pretty heinous. So I would say if you go to Finnmark and you go in from the coast, be prepared for mosquitoes in the summer. But maybe go in winter, or go late summer or early spring. Like early June or late August is ideal.

Bonus: Senja and the Northern Lights

Jason: What about, one more thing I want to ask you about the region, because we talked a lot about some of the beaches and the spectacular scenery, which you could, of course, enjoy in all seasons. But for the northern lights specifically, because that’s bringing the masses right now as well, where are you sending people? Northern lights is the main attraction around Tromsø these days.

Joël: So the peak season is December to February. And if you’re lucky, you know, if you’re there for more than a week or two, you’re going to see it, definitely. What I would recommend is people go to Senja, which is one of the biggest islands in Norway. It’s just southwest of Tromsø. It’s like an hour and a half drive, a little ferry, and then you get to this island called Senja. Senja has some amazing fjords, amazing landscapes. And one of the important things about seeing northern lights is something we call light pollution. So when you’re in a city, because the northern lights are actually really, really weak, the light is really weak. So if you have other lights in your eye, you’re not going to be able to see it. So you need to be somewhere dark. So you can’t stay in the city, and you’ve got to get as far away from any lights as possible. So Senja is not only just an amazing place with a lot of the same scenery that we mentioned in these other gems, but it’s got darkness pretty easily accessible. So some of the best northern light spots are on Senja. And a good place would be anywhere where there’s darkness and where we have sort of a 360 view of the sky.

Jason: Okay. There you go. Bonus recommendation.

Bonus: Gimsøya in Lofoten

Joël: Yeah. And actually, I wanted to mention, because people do go to Lofoten. I went to Lofoten myself last year. It is beautiful. But there is one place that we discovered actually for the first time last year that I would recommend everyone go to. And also, if you’re into horseback riding, it’s a really cool place. In Lofoten, some of the most famous villages and towns are on two different islands. They’re called Vestvågøy and Austvågøy. West and East Island. And in between those two islands, there’s a little island called Gimsøya. Spelled with a G. G-I-M-S.

Jason: Oh, yeah.

Joël: And on Gimsøya there is, I think it’s Icelandic horses, actually, that you have on a little farm on the outside of the island. And it’s got one of the best beaches I’ve ever been to. And they have horses, and they have a little restaurant and a little campsite. And you can do all three of them. I went out on a SUP board at three o’clock in the morning in the midnight sun. And I had, it was probably dolphins or something, popping up next to me. And my wife went horseback riding for three hours in the mountains behind. It was just an absolute treat. And it was relatively quiet. And I’d never heard of this place before.

Jason: What was the place called?

Joël: It’s called Gimsøya. G-I-M-S-O-Y-A. And the place is called Hov Gård. H-O-V Gård. So, Hov Farm. And they do take a lot of clients every summer, and they take them out horseback riding, and you have a really good restaurant. And so it’s an absolute treat. So if you go into Lofoten, you’re going to see all the places that are easily searchable. I don’t need to tell you about those. This is a little gem you should add to your itinerary.

Jason: Okay. I think you just bumped this up to seven hidden gems, bro. Congratulations.

Joël: I think we did. I got a lot more, but we’re going to keep it up for now.

Jason: Well done. Okay. Well, we’ll link up to the things we mentioned. Do you want to share one more time your website and whatever we want to put in the show notes? We’ll just throw it in there.

Where to Find Noraventura and Wrapping Up

Joël: Yeah. So me, as a local service provider, is called Noraventura, noraventura.com. And then I’m also going to have this little short list, or it’s actually 100-plus items, with both stays and restaurants and activities throughout Norway, which is hosted by a little site that I’ve called Kept, because it’s just sowellkept.com. And that’s going to be up, and hopefully we’re going to be able to share it with your audience.

Jason: Okay. Very good. Thanks, man. Thanks for taking the effort to come up, sit in my living room, and share your expertise and the hidden gems up in Northern Norway, which, of course, have me chomping at the bit to jump in the car, like I said, take a little road trip right now. We’ll see. I’ll see how many of these I can squeeze out my next, or I should say first, trip up there.

Joël: Yeah. Please get in touch if you have any questions. Thank you again.

Jason: I’ve got to high five you out because we always do that when we’re in person here. This was your first podcast, by the way.

Joël: Yeah.

Jason: You nailed it.

Joël: I’m not used to this at all.

Jason: Nailed it. Thank you. Nailed it. We’re going to go eat some food now. Thanks for listening.

Joël: Thank you.

Closing

Jason: There you have it. Thanks to Joël for stopping by the show and stopping by my house to record it. And I certainly got some ideas, and you’re going to get plenty. If you grab that cheat sheet, we’ll link up to that in the show notes just one more time. I’ll remind you, noraventura.com/unlisted. You can grab that 100 stays and restaurants away from the noise in Norway with that promo code ZERO, Z-E-R-O. And we have a newsletter, zerototravel.com/newsletter. If you have not joined the community over there, feel free to do that. I’m going to leave you with a quote that I think wraps this one up nicely, because time is always a bit distorted in Northern Norway, depending on when you’re there. But, you know, you could be in the middle of the summer in the midnight sun. It just never goes down. It’s sunny all the time. I’m like, well, it’s three in the morning. And then, of course, in the winter, it can be dark all the time. And so that’s why I grabbed this quote about time. First, I do want to say one last thing. Airwave Media is the podcast network we’re a part of now. If you go to airwavemedia.com, you can check out some of the other great shows that they have. Here’s this quote from Sam Levenson, who said, “Don’t watch the clock, do what it does and keep going.” Thanks for listening. I’ll see you next time. Peace and love to you and yours. Cheers.