A Spontaneous Road Trip from Serbia to Vietnam + the Benefits of Unplanned Travel with Mia Kercher

Welcome and Post-Trip Life

Jason: Mia Kercher, welcome to the Zero to Travel podcast, my friend. How are you doing?

Mia: Thank you. I’m happy to be here.

Jason: Are you tired from your journey? You were just on a pretty epic journey, which we’re going to talk about today. Are you in post-travel, “I just need to lay here and not think too much” mode? What’s post-travel mode for you after a journey this big?

Mia: I have been a bit tired. Not quite as active as I typically am. So I’m just doing a lot of catching up on work stuff, and also writing and things like that.

Jason: Okay, cool. Do you write for yourself? I know you write for work, which we’ll talk about a bit. But do you journal? Do you write for yourself?

Mia: Yeah, I’m writing a book about the trip, actually. I’m writing the whole trip. And yeah, I also write lots of creative stuff, poems and things like that.

Jason: Okay, cool. Maybe you’ll share one of your poems with us at the end?

Mia: I don’t know. We’ll have to see.

Jason: Maybe.

Mia: Maybe. I don’t know.

The Decision to Drive from Serbia to Vietnam

Jason: Well, you just finished traveling overland with your cat from Serbia to Vietnam. And you had a great overview on your Instagram, which we’ll link up to. I don’t know how you made this thing, but you were talking about how you just changed modes of transportation along the way, and why you couldn’t go into this country or that one. It was really cool. But you’re here, so just give us a quick overview of what you did, so people can get a full understanding, timeline-wise. Like, how long ago did you finish? And then we can dive in, because I have a ton of questions about the journey itself. And then we can obviously talk about some of the mindset stuff. And I know you have some other things you do, like you’re a hypnotist, I believe. I want to talk about that. So, a lot of stuff to unpack. But let’s get into the travel stuff first. I want to hear the overview of this journey, which sounds a bit insane on the surface. I’m sure some insane things happened, since you’re writing a book about it.

Mia: Yeah, for sure. So the goal was, I really wanted to drive my car from Serbia to Vietnam.

Jason: Yeah. Why?

Mia: Just for the adventure. I kind of decided I’m done with Serbia. I was living here as an expat, actually I’m back here now, but I wasn’t expecting to come back. And then I was just like, yeah, I’m just going to leave. And I didn’t know where I wanted to live or what I wanted to do, so I was like, why don’t I just drive? You know, I’ve explored a lot of Europe and not a ton of Asia. Well, now I’ve explored quite a bit, but at that point hadn’t seen much of Asia. And I was like, why don’t I just drive east and see if I can make it all the way to the opposite end of the continent.

Meet Cleo the Cat

Jason: Okay. What’s your cat’s name, by the way?

Mia: Cleo.

Jason: Cleo. Okay. So it’s short for Cleocatra?

Mia: Sure.

Jason: I like Cleocatra. I mean, I’m a sucker for a good cat pun, Mia. I did a couple of stints as a tour manager driving the Meow Mix mobile, which was a giant cat mobile with whiskers and ears on the car. Those were speakers. We had this whole thing, and people loved it. People were flocking to this thing. So we were full of cat puns, you know, we were just purring down the highway. I won’t, I’ll spare everybody, this isn’t a stand-up comedy show.

How Mia Ended Up in Serbia

Jason: All right, why were you and Cleocatra living in Serbia in the first place? What were you doing there?

Mia: That was where I ended up settling after a two and a half year backpacking stint.

Jason: Before that. Wow.

Mia: I ended up, that was also when I got kind of tired of traveling after two and a half years. And I was like, I think I need a break from traveling. And I wanted to start my online business, because at that point I didn’t know about online business, so I was like, oh, let me start this copywriting thing. And cost of living is cheaper in Serbia, then I don’t have to go home. And I just ended up living in Serbia.

The Genesis of the Two and a Half Year Backpacking Trip

Jason: Okay, we have to go back further now. What was the genesis of the two and a half year backpacking trip?

Mia: That was basically, I graduated from college and I was like, I don’t want to get a job.

Jason: Yeah, well, I mean, who wants to get a job?

Mia: Right. Yeah, I just worked so hard for this degree, I don’t want to go and work now.

Jason: Makes sense. And this is in Oregon, right?

Mia: Yeah, yeah.

Jason: Okay. So you finished college and you’re like, did you have student debt, or?

Mia: No, actually I had saved a bunch of money at that point, or, you know, a chunk of money. Not to go too far back in my past, but I ended up having this random, older, rich lady who hired me as her personal assistant. And she ended up, we became great friends, and she paid for my college.

Jason: What, really?

Mia: Yeah, it was amazing.

Jason: Well, that’s not something that happens every day.

Mia: No, completely random. Her lawyer found me online and was like, hey, you can come and work full time for us, and it’s full benefits.

Jason: They approached you and said, hey, will you come and caretake for this woman?

Mia: Yeah, I didn’t even apply.

Jason: But how did they find you? Did you have some kind of online presence, or why did they choose you?

Mia: I was on a random housekeeping platform. Like, people can pay you and you clean their houses. And they found me on there.

Jason: Wow, isn’t that great? Online, even before online business was much of a thing. One minute you’re housekeeping random houses, the next minute you’re getting your college paid for and you have a job with full benefits. That’s the twists and turns of life.

Energetic Copywriting and Spiritual Evolution

Jason: Okay, so you were doing this, you didn’t have the debt coming out because of that. And then, well, I’m curious. Okay, we’re going to talk about the backpacking trip in a minute, but I know at the heart of a lot of your copywriting work you have this energetic, I don’t want to call it a twist because it sounds like a core value for you, but it’s blended into your work, and you say you do energetic copywriting. It’s a blend of psychology, linguistics, and hypnosis techniques to market to the subconscious mind. I’m just quoting your website here. But because you have this forward-facing thing in your business, I imagine that, I don’t know how to say this, but the energetic sort of energy, let’s say we all know the world is made up of energy, that’s just a scientific fact, is very much infused in the things that you do and the decisions you make. Do you think that was in play when you landed in this gig where you got your college paid for, and in the other things that have happened in your life? Was that something that was a core value of yours that you tried to infuse in the things you did early on? Or is that more of a newer type of thing in your life, in terms of your own spiritual evolution, if you want to call it that?

Mia: You could say it’s more newer, yeah. I actually started getting into hypnosis and energy work and stuff like that when I came to Serbia.

Jason: Yeah, okay.

Mia: Before that, everything felt very random.

Jason: Right, okay. I mean, in hindsight, do you think it was random, or do you have a different perspective on it now?

Mia: No, I think, that’s a big question. I don’t know. I think a lot of things are random, but then they sort of randomly work out to something that you needed them to work out to. Whereas maybe there was some kind of, and I don’t know, I believe in all kinds of gods and goddesses and spirits and all this kind of stuff, but at the end of the day I don’t know what’s real. So it’s like maybe something was guiding me and saying, okay, you get this job and then you’ll go and travel. And at the time I was just like, you know, my whole first backpacking trip was complete chaos. I didn’t follow any of these travel influencers online, I didn’t know anything about backpacking, and so I was just running into a series of obstacles and, okay, I guess I’ll do this now, I guess I’ll go here. And yeah, I then ended up in Serbia, and I think everything sort of piles into some kind of chaotic order in some way.

Traveling Without a Plan

Jason: It’s very easy to get information nowadays, as we know, right? So I’d say the majority of people, if they’re going to embark on a, I don’t know if you knew the trip was going to be two and a half years at that point, or was it open-ended?

Mia: Completely open-ended. I thought I was just going to move to Spain and teach English. And as soon as I got there, I was like, oh, I kind of like this travel thing, I’m just going to keep traveling.

Jason: Okay, so you had a gig and then, okay. Because most people, I would say, in that open-ended situation would probably do some research. Was that an intentional choice, or was it just kind of like naivety, if you will? Like, I’m just going to go into this and see what happens and go along for the ride? Or were you like, you know what, I’m not going to look at anything, I just want this to be completely fresh? I think there’s a lot of advantages to that, by the way, even if you’re going to make more mistakes.

Mia: The idea of research didn’t even occur to me. I don’t know, I think it’s just my personality, because even this last trip to Asia, people are shocked at how little research I did. And that’s why I ended up having to ditch my car. I don’t know, I think I’m just not really wired to do a lot of research. I’m more wired for just, oh, I have an idea, let me just go and then figure it out along the way.

Jason: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s really cool, because you’re going to get a totally different experience than if you set yourself up with expectations. And obviously that can work to your disadvantage if you run into some logistical paperwork issues, for example, for visas and things like that, which I know you did on this recent trip. But then again, that leads to its own set of experiences, right? You wouldn’t have had those other experiences if those things didn’t happen. So there’s no real right way or wrong way, using air quotes, to travel.

Mia: Yeah, well, I think also I wouldn’t have done it if I had known all the random challenges that would come up.

Jason: Too intimidating.

Mia: Yeah, or I’d just be too lazy, I’d be like, oh, that sounds like a lot of hard work, I’m just going to pet my cat and relax at home.

Jason: No, that makes sense.

Life on the Backpacking Trip: Chaotic Order

Jason: The backpacking trip, you were in Spain, you were teaching, how long did you teach, and what did that trip look like for you?

Mia: Actually, I didn’t teach. I didn’t have a gig, I was just thinking I would walk around to different English schools with my resume and see if I could get a job.

Jason: I love it. Did that work out?

Mia: Not really. I mean, I didn’t really try that hard, because really I just, I got to Barcelona and then I was like, I just want to keep going. I don’t know, why do I want to work?

Jason: Yeah, okay. So what were some of the chaotic order moments on that trip?

Mia: Chaotic order, meaning my 90-day visa expired, or it’s not really a visa, but the 90 days you get in the Schengen zone expired. And then it was kind of like, okay, so now I have to think of some other region to go to. And I was thinking to go to South America, but then, I don’t remember why I changed my mind, for some reason I started to look up countries outside the Schengen zone. And that’s when I discovered Serbia for the first time, and was like, oh, people said there’s great hiking there. And I was there in the winter and I was hiking in the mountains, having a great time. And then I started to do a little research, and I found out about Workaway. So I did some volunteering, and I was in Albania, and where else was I, Italy, in the mountains. And then I was supposed to go to Vienna after I finished in Italy, but my accommodation fell through right at the last minute, and nothing else was as cheap as that. So I was like, well, now where do I go? I was like, I haven’t seen Serbia in the summer, so I went back to Serbia for the summer. I thought that I was going to stay in Novi Sad, which is the other big city in Serbia other than Belgrade. And then I just accidentally booked the wrong accommodation and ended up in some small town outside of Belgrade. Ended up making a bunch of friends, kind of fell in love with somebody, so I stayed for a while for that. And it was just like everything sort of happened, and then I just react to whatever happens and choose the next thing after that.

Jason: Yeah, okay, no, I mean, that’s living life.

Mia: Yeah, you know.

Jason: That’s just really living, you know? I think many things are so calculated nowadays. With travel, that’s one of the things I love, that you’re able to create the physical space and the mental space to just live life in a way that feels more natural, in some ways I would say, than the sort of structured daily thing, which isn’t always the case, of course. It’s not a black or white thing, it’s many shades of gray.

Lessons from Two and a Half Years on the Road

Jason: The lessons that came out of that trip for you, what were some of the big things that stuck with you? Because you said you didn’t do a lot of research, everything was really fresh, I’m sure you were taking in a lot of experiences along the way. And then, of course, learning about yourself on a journey like that, when you’re coming up against challenges and all of the things travel throws at you. What were some of the things for you personally that came out of that two and a half year backpacking experience?

Mia: I think the biggest thing was really becoming more confident in myself. I was always a very outgoing person who easily made friends and stuff like that, but there was always some level of comfort zone involved in that. You’re in your country and people are speaking your language, so you can do these different things, but you have this element of being in your comfort zone. And then to be in these other countries and languages, new ways of getting around and stuff like that, it was a little intimidating. So it took me a little while to find a rhythm of, how do I want to just randomly meet people, being outgoing. And there were some people I met along the way who were super outgoing, and I kind of observed how they interacted with other people. And then I was like, oh, okay, I can just walk up to a random person in the street and say hello. So I started to do that, and that made the trip way more fun, because then I’m just meeting random people, basically my line was always just walking up to someone who I thought looked interesting and saying, hi, do you speak English?

Jason: Yeah, okay.

Mia: And then we go out to lunch, we have a drink, we do this or that. And it just ended up making the trip so much more interesting. So I think that was a huge life lesson, to just be able to learn to get over whatever self-consciousness we have about randomly talking to strangers.

Jason: Yeah, that’s amazing. Just kind of learning to put yourself out there in a way where you’re willing to do it, despite the discomfort. It’s powerful.

Solo Travel and Life Before Serbia

Jason: What about the solo travel aspect for you? Was that intimidating at all going into it? Had you done a lot of solo traveling before? Are you somebody that spent a lot of time on your own? I know that can be intimidating for some people.

Mia: I do have a lifelong history of just doing things that I want to do without, just going for it. I did a lot of road trips in the US when I was, because I actually went to college later, when I left my parents’ house I kind of moved to North Dakota during the oil boom, and I was there hanging out in the Midwest for a while. And yeah, just driving around the US a lot. So it never bothered me to be alone. No, it never has.

Jason: Okay, were you digging for black gold? It sounds very old school.

Mia: I mean, it was kind of like a modern day gold rush, the way it was in North Dakota, because it was 2010. So that was right in the middle of the recession. Plus I had no, I was just fresh out of my parents’ house, I had no actual skills or anything. And my sister was actually in the military, based in North Dakota, so she was like, why don’t you come here for a summer? So I went there for the summer, because basically the oil rigs were the only place where everybody was like, jobs, jobs, jobs. So all these people from all over the country were coming to work in the oil rigs, and if you had no experience or anything it didn’t matter, and you could get paid much more than making minimum wage somewhere else in the country. So I didn’t go to work in the oil rigs, I went to be a waitress, because they were all saying, oh, waitresses make more than strippers in Las Vegas, and in North Dakota, which I think was true.

Jason: Really? Wow, okay.

Mia: Yeah, I remember, now I wouldn’t think it was that much money, because I do make more in my business now, but at the time it felt like I was just, thank you for piling my table with cash. It felt like I was really making a lot.

Jason: Wow, okay. Well, after this, don’t be surprised if there’s an influx of Las Vegas workers to North Dakota now. Who knows?

Planning (or Not Planning) the Overland Route

Jason: The car trip, or the multi-transportation trip we should say, that you just finished. How long ago did you finish the trip from Serbia to Vietnam? This is very fresh, right?

Mia: It was at the beginning of summer.

Jason: Okay, yeah, so some months ago at the time of this recording.

Mia: But not that long ago, really. It’s not like it was years ago.

Jason: And you mentioned the lack of research thing, which is interesting because you’re talking about going from Serbia to Vietnam, and I know you went through Russia, I mean, you’re American, there’s a war going on, you drove into Afghanistan, all kinds of things that can happen in remote areas there. I’m not even sure what remote areas you can go into on your own and whatnot. These aren’t small things, there could be life and death type of things. And, you know, I’m a huge proponent of, we hear it time and again here, that the world’s a much friendlier place than the media makes it out to be and all that stuff. But there is a reality of some of these places. What did you do to prepare going through Russia as an American citizen right now, could be something that’s a problem, into the ruined areas of Afghanistan? And then also, if you’re not researching some of the cultural stuff when you get into the Middle East and stuff like that, certain ways that you may want to present to fit in. How did you manage all that going into the trip? Or did you at all? Was it another one of those, all right, I’m going to throw my cat in the car and go?

Mia: A little bit of both. That’s such a good question. I wasn’t planning on going through Russia originally. Originally, I thought I would go from Turkey into Iran, and then maybe into Pakistan after that, or maybe Afghanistan, I wasn’t sure. But that’s when I found out about this document, the Carnet de Passage, which for people who don’t know is a very official kind of insurance document that you have to get to be able to enter a lot of countries in Asia.

The Carnet de Passage and the Route Through Russia

Jason: Okay.

Mia: A lot in Africa as well. I don’t think any European countries require it. But yeah, they won’t let you into the country if you don’t have this document, because it basically proves that you won’t import your car into their country.

Jason: Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

Mia: So that was a big one. Yeah, that ended up being my downfall.

Jason: Oh, really?

Mia: Yeah, so I didn’t have that one, and you couldn’t get into Iran without it. Plus Iran’s complication was that Americans can’t go into the country without a certified travel guide with them at all times. And that was really a negative for me, because that’s not the way I like to travel at all. So basically I spent a ton of time in Turkey researching how to get through, because it was so complicated. You couldn’t get from Turkey to, I’m mixing up these countries now, Azerbaijan, is that the next one? I wish I had a map open. There’s a little cluster of countries, there’s Azerbaijan, I think that’s the one right above Turkey, but they have their border closed in between them. But then if I wanted to go through Georgia and get to that country, they have their land borders closed. You can fly into the country, but you can’t drive in by car. Then there was the next one, which was completely closed for vehicle entry because they’re still closed because of COVID, actually.

Jason: Really?

Mia: Yeah, that’s technically what their official website says, that they’re closed because of COVID, or it said that a year ago, I haven’t checked it since then.

Jason: Okay, yeah, yeah.

Mia: So then I thought, well, maybe there’s a ferry I can take across the Caspian Sea. I was looking at from Georgia, but then I was contacting this ferry I found online, and they said, no, we’re not running anymore, it’s closed. So basically in the end it ended up that the only way to get around was to go through Russia and go all the way around.

Jason: Wow, okay. How many countries did you end up going through in the end? You can give us the quick overview and then we got onto a whole other topic, but just so people have some context.

Mia: So my route ended up being Serbia, Bulgaria, Turkey, Georgia, Russia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan. That is when I got denied entry into India, and I ended up having to fly to Thailand. And then it was Thailand, Laos, Vietnam.

Jason: And you did some biking, you did some walking after you got over to Thailand, right? You tried some different things that weren’t for you, it sounded like, after some days. But I think that’s cool, you know, you went for it. Like, you tried the biking thing, it sounded like it wasn’t, you said in the video I watched it was a bit too tough, and then you did some walking and you got blisters. It sounds like you just kind of adapt on your own, you’re listening to yourself as you’re on the road and figuring out what you need. Sounds like a pretty epic trip. So since you’re writing a book on it, and this is fresh, I imagine that the experiences you’re writing about are the ones that are book worthy, let’s say. I’d like to hear about some of those experiences.

Mia: Yeah, absolutely.

Arriving in Afghanistan

Jason: Let’s see, top experiences.

Mia: I mean, Afghanistan, it’ll just forever be in my mind, like the most life-changing, one of the most life-changing countries I’ve ever visited, because there was so much hype around it. I literally had my friends back in Serbia messaging me like, Mia, don’t go to Afghanistan, we don’t think it’s a good idea, calling me concerned, saying not to go. In terms of your question about doing research about that beforehand, there is an Afghanistan travel Facebook group, and so I did find some other women who have driven through Afghanistan on their own. There were a couple of them in the group, and I reached out to them, and they told me, no, no, it’s going to be fine. So that was the research I did, I said, instead of looking at what’s in the media or looking at the travel advisory notification on the US.gov website, I’m going to talk to actual women who were there alone, even one driving a car, and ask them. And they said it was going to be fine.

Jason: Okay, and so what, you just followed the route that they suggested, or was it?

Mia: I mean, everybody has different routes, because different people are traveling different ways through their overland journeys. Mine was just, I needed to get from Uzbekistan to Pakistan basically, so I visited the main cities along the way for that route.

Jason: How long was the trip through Afghanistan? And tell us about your experience on the ground. Who did you meet? What stood out? Why is it so memorable and life-changing for you personally?

Mia: Yeah. I ended up being there for five weeks, because that’s where I was trying to figure out what I was going to do about this Carnet de Passage. So I had tried to apply to figure out if I could get it long distance, which it ended up turning out that I could, but they charge you 12,000 euros to be able to go into Pakistan.

Jason: Wow, okay.

Mia: Yeah, which they said, oh, it’s a refundable deposit, but of course my car is a 2006 Megane, I don’t know if it’s going to make it out, so I was like, I don’t want to take that risk. So, yeah, I was basically killing time in Afghanistan while I waited to find out that response. It was like, at first, the biggest shock, I mean, just literally going into another world, completely different than any place I visited. You know, the clothes and the way people act and interact with each other, it was all completely different. At first it was shocking, because I got so much attention, it was very overwhelming. Your nervous system goes into this fight or flight mode, like thousands of people are literally watching me, pointing at me. It was very overwhelming for the first several days. But then I met some people, because it’s impossible not to meet people. They kind of took me around, they were local people and they started translating. And what I realized is everybody was just asking, oh, does she need anything, is she okay, does she like Afghanistan, can we do anything to help her? And so once I realized those were the things they wanted to say, I was like, oh, this is absolutely just, it gave me some reassurance to be like, okay, literally it’s just curiosity, they haven’t seen a foreigner, they’re curious. And that ended up making it really fun, because then after that I was just, hey everybody, hi, salam, salam. It was completely fun after that. Then it’s nonstop, people are just, come to my house, have some tea, come to my house, like they’re begging you to stay the night at their house, and just so much fun meeting everybody and going into these different houses and meeting families, and people give you really special treatment. There was one government building you could go in and see, it was kind of like a museum, and then the actual architects of the building came out of their office and gave me this private tour around, and told me everything about designing this, it was an old palace from a king in the past. So they’re giving me this private tour and telling me all this insider information, showing me rooms that are usually closed off to tourists, but they’re with me so I get to see them. It was like this amazing, it was like, I don’t want to say I was treated like royalty because that sounds conceited in some way, but they really did, I mean, everybody pulled out all the stops with their hospitality.

Advice for Women Traveling to Afghanistan

Jason: What is your best advice for women who want to travel there? Did you have to dress a certain way, or I know there are certain rules, or I don’t know if it’s different for foreigners. What’s the protocol?

Mia: They’re not strict about the rules with foreigners. I don’t think I would have had to, I’m sure I would have had to cover my head, I did that right before I crossed the border. And you could just wear modest clothes, loose fitting, covering the skin and stuff. But I wore the black gown just because I wanted to, and people really liked it. They were saying, oh, you look so good in our clothes. And I wasn’t doing it for the Taliban, I was doing it for the people who really enjoyed seeing me wearing their clothes.

Conversations About the Current State of Afghanistan

Jason: Did you have any conversations on the ground about the current state of affairs there, with the government and everything?

Mia: Yeah, so there was one day when I first arrived, and I was at this mosque with a guy I had met, and there was apparently a modesty police who was there. He asked my friend, what’s her deal, what’s up with her, and then he translated for us, and I actually asked this guy, because his job is to sit at the mosque and make sure women are dressed appropriately, so I was asking him, what’s the deal with the schools being closed? And he said, well, we’re doing it because there were some professors who were abusing the women, and so we had to take the women out of the school to protect them from these guys who are abusing them. And I asked him, well, then what are you doing to those men, are they getting punished? Why punish the women? And he said, no, they are getting punished, they’re getting punished according to what the Quran says has to be done to them. And then I said, okay, so if they’re punished, then can the women come back? And he’s like, well, maybe, maybe next year. So, yeah, it’s interesting to hear his perspective on that, because they do say that it’s for the women’s protection that they’re keeping them out of the parks, out of the schools, this kind of stuff. So that’s their reasoning behind it. I talked to a lot of guys who weren’t in the Taliban who were like, the Taliban are actually doing a good job with this country, the only problem is what they’re doing to women. But a lot of people have a lot of positive things to say about the Taliban, because they’re repairing the roads, they’re repairing the country ever since all the destruction from war there. Now it’s actually safe to be there, whereas when the Americans were there, you would just get shot in the street, it was really dangerous. Now they have all these checkpoints, they have guards everywhere, so people are actually safe, so a lot of people see it as a positive thing. But then when you go to Kabul, in the capital city, and you meet young women, they’re like, oh yeah, it’s a great country if you have rights, and they’re pissed about it.

Jason: Interesting. So just interesting to hear the conversations on the ground, and really hearing it from the people, the different perspectives, and how people are feeling about the situation, who’s in charge, and all of that.

American Identity on the Road

Jason: And you didn’t sense any animosity for being American? I’m always curious, I know you ended up in Vietnam, and maybe there, the Vietnam War was quite a long time ago, but even still, when I was in Vietnam specifically, I felt like there was still some animosity in some places about that. And maybe that was just me projecting, I don’t know. But it’s totally understandable, right, like some country came in and killed their relatives, you know. So you didn’t get any sense of that in Afghanistan, which is way more recent?

Mia: I didn’t get animosity. I definitely had a lot of people who would say, the Americans did this and this to us, the Americans did this and this to us. And then you sit there and you just listen to what happened, and you have to say, I’m really sorry.

Jason: Yeah. How does that make you feel, hearing those experiences?

Mia: It feels horrible. I hate that the country that I’m from did that, of course I know it’s not my fault, and I think they know that it’s not my fault, because they’re not trying to accuse me of something, but I am the first American that they’ve met who’s not a soldier. So they actually have a chance, it’s like, one day in the mountains, kind of up a hill somewhere, I met a Taliban guy, and he was like, oh, my dream is to be an American actor. So I turn on my camera, I’m like, what would you like to say, if you’re in America and you want to be an actor and stuff? And he was like, I would want to say that the Americans who came here, they left, and then they were just gone, and they had no accountability, and now we’re repairing everything, and okay, they’re gone, but now we have to fix everything. But the funny thing is, he said this, then he invites me over to his house, because he has a pomegranate farm, and he’s giving me pomegranates, and I’m meeting his wife and all these people. But then his wife had her hand, what’s the word, like a birth defect, or, no, no, it was deformed. I know that’s probably not the right word to say, it’s not. She had like a birth defect or something.

The Pomegranate Farmer and the Fundraiser

Mia: And they said that she had gotten shot by an American soldier.

Jason: Oh, okay, gosh.

Mia: Yeah, so her hand was ruined because of this. And I was telling my Afghan friend who was with me about this later, and he was like, you know, the Red Cross fixes things like that for people, they’d probably do it for free if she could just get enough money to go into Kabul, this was way outside the city, and go to the Red Cross, and maybe they could fix it for her. So I said, well, how much does it cost for that? He’s like, I don’t know, a couple hundred dollars. So I just posted on Instagram, I was like, hey, does anybody want to donate, and we can get a couple hundred dollars for this lady. And people donated. So I ended up going back there, which was a whole adventure on its own, because we hadn’t actually marked the location of the place, we didn’t have the guy’s phone number. But this old guy we were with wrote it down in his little address book, he had written down the guy’s number, but it turns out he wrote down the wrong number and the wrong name. So we’re driving through this village where I’ve just seen the village, and I’m like, I think it’s that one, even though they all look the same, but somehow I found the right one, and we’re driving through and asking everybody, do you know where Arfanola is, because that’s the name the guy had written down, and everybody’s like, we don’t know Arfanola, we don’t know Arfanola. And then this guy drives his car opposite direction of ours, he rolls down the window, and the driver up front is asking, do you know who Arfanola is, and he shows the guy my picture of the guy on my phone.

Jason: Yeah.

Mia: And that’s the guy.

Jason: Oh, really? Wow.

Mia: He’s like, well, my name’s not Arfanola, it’s Izetula, but it’s me.

Jason: Wow. And then you gave him the money then? How did that go?

Mia: Well, he just, you know, he said, thank you so much. And he took me back to the house to have tea with his wife and all the women who live in the house. Yeah, then we just left after that.

Jason: Wow, okay. Hmm, so many experiences.

Mia: Yeah, but like I said, it really was such a different world in Afghanistan. It’s like you just step in, and all of a sudden it’s like everything is different, because people there are so isolated. Afghan people can only go to three, or no, it’s only two, I think, countries in the world right now, Pakistan or the UAE. And nobody can afford to go to the UAE, so they can go to Pakistan, which is pretty similar to Afghanistan. But essentially people can’t travel, so they’re completely isolated in this country, and their culture is so traditional and so old-fashioned that you go there and it’s incredible. It’s unlike any other country I’ve been to.

Jason: Amazing. No, thanks for sharing, it’s cool to hear the on-the-ground experiences there. And I’ve talked to other people who have been there and heard a variety of different things, but generally having good experiences. And again, the on-the-ground, person-to-person experience as a traveler is much different than when we’re talking about governments, and we all know that from living in the world, right? The government’s a whole different entity than just the people you meet. But I know they’re famous for their hospitality, to the extreme, in that area of the world in general, I feel so much about the hospitality. That’s the one thread that’s come up a lot on this show.

A Tense Moment in the Mountains

Jason: What about, were there any other times in the trip where you felt like things were dodgy, or there were moments of, oh gosh, what have I gotten myself into, this is dangerous, what was I thinking, anything like that?

Mia: Not too much. There was one incident in Afghanistan where I want to say, the Taliban guys were all so nice to me overall, they were just like any regular guy, oh, do you need any help, do you need anything, they were super nice. But there was one incident where I got my car stuck on this mountain, and I couldn’t push it, because I’m actually really not good with driving a stick, because I am American.

Jason: So why not just drive a stick from Serbia to Vietnam?

Mia: Sure. Well, yeah. I did get stuck on this hill, and this car full of Taliban guys pulls over, and this guy is like, do you want me to drive it up the hill for you? And I said, yes, please. And so he just jumps in and drives it up the hill. Then he keeps going. And I’m like, man, what are you doing? And he says, to Kabul. And I was like, well, Kabul is a long way away, it’s hours away. And he’s just driving my car and driving and driving. And I’m like, at first I’m like, well, I guess it’s fine, we were laughing, and he didn’t speak any English, so we were just saying a few Farsi words. And then he starts to make a symbol, like he’s asking for money, with his fingers. And I was like, man, you can’t ask for money, you have to arrange that beforehand. And then we make an agreement, and he says, no, and he pulls out his wallet and tries to hand me some bills, and then he was grabbing my leg, and I was like, this is not a good situation. So I was just like, get out of the car, but he doesn’t speak English. So I had a brief moment of, what did I just get myself into? But I just started to yell, I was like, stop the car, stop the car. And I’m making all these gestures with my hands. So he ended up pulling over the car and getting back in with the guys. But I think that was really the only situation where I was like, this is not good, you have no control, you’re in a car, somebody else is driving.

Jason: Right. No, it’s scary.

Two Flat Tires in Russia

Jason: What about any of the other places along the way? What was it like going through Russia?

Mia: Russia was also quite safe. I only got a two-day visa, they gave me a two-day transit visa, so I had to drive through as quickly as possible. And of course, that’s the country where I get not one, but two flat tires, and one of my tires actually fell off the car.

Jason: Oh, wow. Yeah.

Mia: So I spent my entire two days in Russia fixing the tire that fell off and another one that went flat. Basically I didn’t do much interacting with people, I did tell everybody I was Serbian, because I was in a very rural area, and I know that a lot of times people can watch TV when they’re in rural areas and get ideas, so I was just telling people I was Serbian and really didn’t interact with a lot of people. Mostly I was interacting with the guys who were fixing my tires, and a couple of people in hotels I drove through, and that was really it.

Traveling with a Cat

Jason: How did your cat hold up on this trip? You know, I was amazed.

Mia: Sorry, I’m just plugging in my computer.

Jason: No worries. Yeah, I mean, I guess that having a pet, that’s a whole other wrinkle to this. For the pet lovers out there, they may be feeling inspired now to hear you can do some crazy trip like this with your pet, but there are some logistics around having a pet, of course, you can’t leave them in a hot car for hours and all that kind of stuff. Do you have any tips for people who want to do a big adventure like this with a pet?

Mia: Yeah, I mean, I had two bags. One was like our stealth mode bag, which is like, we don’t really want people to know that I have a cat in some hotels and stuff like that, so I would put her in that one and kind of cover it with a piece of fabric if we needed to sneak in somewhere she wasn’t supposed to go. And then I had one, like a front backpack, and she can just sit in it, she chills, and her arms and legs and her head are out. So basically we would just walk around the city with her chilling in front of me.

Jason: Oh, that doesn’t give you any intention at all. It’s like you said about the Meow Mobile, people just flocked to me. I’m sure that’s a sight many people have never seen.

Mia: Yeah, it doesn’t matter where you are in the world, that’s a crazy thing to see.

Jason: I’m sure that led to a lot of fun conversations.

Mia: Yeah, absolutely. It honestly ended up being such a great perk, it was so easy to meet people. It’s like, even if you go to the touristy places, everybody wants to take a picture, everybody wants to talk to you, you’re like a celebrity.

Jason: Yeah, I know. Do you find that, I know you’re pretty fresh off this trip, I don’t want to say, well, no traveler will say this is just a one-off, I’m never going to do a trip like this again, but do you find that this only further inspired you to do longer types of excursions like this with your pet, or was this kind of like, this was enough for a big one right now, you need a break?

What’s Next for Mia

Jason: So you just finished this epic trip, now you’re working on the book. At this point, do you feel like, not that you’ve had your fill, I don’t think any traveler listening to this show has ever had their fill, but are you going to plan a bigger adventure like this anytime soon? Or are you more like, what’s kind of your thought process now? Are you entertaining any ideas to go back to the States? What’s next for Mia, I guess is the question.

Mia: I have not had my fill. Actually, I think this is my lifestyle now, just driving the car and traveling and visiting these countries and stuff. So at the moment, I’m working on getting another car and getting all the right documentation for it this time. And then the next goal is to go through Africa after this.

Jason: Wow, awesome. Okay, so, what advice do you have? Because you also mentioned, we haven’t talked too much about the business stuff, but that you stopped in Serbia for a while, you wanted to build this business online so you could make this lifestyle sustainable, I’m guessing. And also it’s nice, sometimes after a lot of travel, maybe you’re ready to get to work. Was it maybe a little bit of that too? So what is your advice for building something up while you’re on the road? Because it comes with its own set of challenges.

Building a Business on the Road

Mia: Yeah, building something up while you’re on the road. I think you have to be creative with the way that you make sales. It was different to run a business from my apartment in Serbia, obviously, than to run a business where I’m off grid a good portion of the time. So I really enjoyed doing flash sales. That was my main strategy that I did to make money while I was traveling. It was like, okay, I’ll be in a city where I have a good Airbnb for the next three or four days, so the week before that I’d run a flash sale on sessions with me, and be like, hey, I have two days available next week, you can book a session with me at a discounted rate. And then those would fill up, and I would just do back-to-back sessions with people for two days, and that worked really well, because it was a good chunk of income for the month. And I sort of balanced that with, you know, I am a copywriter, so I also had done-for-you copywriting that I would do for people, which you really don’t need a lot of wifi for, you can just do that on a Google doc and you don’t need much. So I think in terms of building something up, if you’re new and you don’t have anything built at the moment, what would be my advice? My advice would be, maybe stay put for a few months first, get yourself established, get some actual recurring income, and then travel and maintain it. So, at the moment, I am in Serbia again, I ended up coming back here, by the way, because I realized how difficult it is to buy and register a car when you don’t have residency in a country. So I’m back in Serbia, and now I’m building up again, so all last year I was just going off of what I’d already built up, and now I’m working on growing that audience, improving my funnels, things like that, so I can have some passive income for the next time I travel. So it is difficult to really build something when you’re that much on the road, so I do think a little sabbatical of a few months is nice.

Jason: Yeah, okay, I think that’s great advice. And it doesn’t dissuade travel, certainly, I mean, you built it up in Serbia, you could do it from another country you want to spend time in. And, you know, the idea of just, sort of lifestyle business 101, hey, let’s structure this product I’m selling in a way where it’s going to fit into my travel schedule, instead of trying to fit everybody else in, revolving it around them, you revolve your schedule around you and your lifestyle. And if you do it in the right way, like you said, clients know the deal, they know they’re getting on this call, you show up, you do your stuff, and everybody’s happy, but you can still batch it in a way where you have the off-grid time too. So good stuff.

Copywriting in the Age of AI

Jason: How’s the copywriting business going? With AI, are you using AI for any of that stuff? Do you think this is going to be a tough business going forward? For those who aren’t familiar with copywriting, can you give a quick overview of what it is? And I’m curious on your thoughts on that.

Mia: Sure. Yeah, so overview of what copywriting is, it’s basically for people who want to sell things online, you’ve got to have all these written materials in order to sell it. You’ve got your ads, your sales emails, your website and landing pages and things. So those are the things I’m writing as a copywriter, basically selling stuff for people. And then, of course, a lot of people are using AI instead of copywriters, but I think there’s always been, oh, you could get this cheaper on Fiverr, you could get this cheaper on Upwork, on these different freelancing platforms, so I think there’s always that element. And I know that some of my clients, well, some of my clients did cancel, and they were like, yeah, we’re just going to put your copy in and make a, you know, make our own GPT out of this, which I couldn’t stop, because five years ago I didn’t know that I needed something like that with a contract in place. I do still have clients who want their copywriting written by a human, especially people who have really personal brands that aren’t just trying to funnel people through so much. I work with a lot of coaches and people who want that personal touch.

Jason: Yeah, okay, yeah, that’s good to hear.

Standing Out as a Copywriter

Jason: How do you stand out in this day and age?

Mia: I think it’s really about, it’s like nowadays, it used to be everybody was like, don’t talk about your political beliefs, don’t talk about your spiritual or religious beliefs or anything in your business. And I do exactly the opposite. In my marketing, I’m always like, I want clients who are really progressive socially, and they like to talk about political activism and their content, and that’s something I’m passionate about. So I’m really good at combining that with your sales copy, and I think that’s what makes me stand out, and that’s why people hire me, because they are people who share those really strong values.

Jason: Yeah, yeah, there’s something with the alignment there too, you get a much greater experience as a business owner if you’re working with people you want to work with. And when you share values, it’s generally going to be easier to get along in different ways.

Hypnosis and the Subconscious Mind

Jason: The hypnotism thing, can you talk about your experience with that? I’ve talked to a trained hypnotist before.

Mia: Oh yeah, well, I got into it, I sort of stumbled upon a shaman at one point, and this shaman, basically it was an amazing experience, because I had been to therapy, and the therapist would kind of ask these questions like, oh, what do you really want to do with your life, or what do you need, with whatever circumstance, and it’s always like you kind of hit up against a wall when you’re just talking about something, at some point there are no more answers. And then this shaman did this meditation, and I just, the sort of answer that you get when you ask your subconscious mind a question, it really hits different, it’s like this inner light bulb turns on, and you’re just like, oh, I know this is true, it feels like a thump in the chest, like, yeah, this is true. And so, like even with my backpacking trip, the previous one, the two and a half year one, I remember feeling so stressed out a lot of the time, because a lot of the times when these circumstances come up and I’m faced with decisions, it was always like I don’t know what the right thing to do here is, I can just choose something, but I don’t know. And then when I got into hypnotism, that’s when I started to get this thump in the chest kind of feeling of, should I do this or that, and I choose that, and I feel really good about it.

Jason: Why do you think that is?

Mia: I think because our subconscious minds, there’s so much more available to us than just what we see in front of us. I don’t even mean that in a spiritual way, I just mean that in a scientific way. For example, any habit that we do lives in our subconscious mind. It’s not like we have to think about how to walk, how to ride a bike, how to speak our native language, for example, all those things live in the subconscious mind. So the thing that gets in the way is when we think about everything, should I do this, should I do that. It’s like, I hypnotized somebody just the other day who was struggling to play the drums, because she could keep the beat with one hand, but then she would get stressed out when it came to introducing a second beat with her other hand. And as soon as we just got her into more of a relaxed state, so she’s not thinking, okay, now I hit this, now I hit this, she was keeping two beats with her second hand, so she was keeping three beats at the same time. So it’s really just a way of relaxing your usual mental faculties and opening up to whatever the brain is holding.

Jason: Getting your thinking mind out of the way.

Mia: Yeah.

Jason: Interesting.

Where to Find Mia

Jason: Well, best of luck with the book. If people want to check out your copywriting services, of course we’ll link up to it, Evoke Writing. Where else do you want people to go to connect or check you out?

Mia: Yeah, also go to my website. That’s also where I have a lot of stuff about my travels, about the hypnotism. There’s even a free hypnosis you can get. So there’s lots to check out on there as well.

Jason: Cool. Well, it was a pleasure chatting with you. I’m looking forward to the book whenever that drops, good luck writing that, and then the next adventure, I can’t wait to hear all about it. So let’s stay in touch, I hope we can chat again.

Mia: Yeah, please. I thought of a poem that I could read.

Jason: Oh, great. Yeah, I want to wrap it up with a poem, let’s do this.

Mia: Okay, at first I hesitated, because I didn’t know what would be good for this, but I think maybe this one will be.

Jason: All right, the stage is yours.

Mia: Thank you.

Closing Poem

Mia: I don’t want a life of comfort. I don’t want instant gratification for all my desires. I want to know disappointment intimately. I want to be taken by the tense uncertainty of waiting. I want to wake in the morning, huddled close to longing. And when I’ve had all I can take and am ravished and exhausted by the delay of my desires, I want to bite into the sweetness of receiving more than I could possibly imagine. I want to feel the wealth dripping down my chin in all its sloppy ripeness. I want to lick my lips with the tangy aftertaste of gratification. I want to lap up the leftovers of rich pleasure till there isn’t one drop left. I want to gurgle the juices of justification and suck the marrow from the bones of bounty. No, I don’t want to pick and choose my experiences. I don’t want to trim them down, organize them neatly, put some on display and others hidden shamefully in the cellar. I want them all up front for all to see. I want the flavors to simmer and boil and blend together, wafting an aroma so sweet yet so bitter, so salty yet so sour, so crunchy yet so smooth. I want to swirl them all together to be tasted, chewed, swallowed, digested, so I can breathe deeply and see clearly, so I can be fully alive while it is my time to live.

Jason: Wow, goosebumps here. Oh, the power of words. Thank you, Mia, thanks for sharing that, and thanks for sharing your time today.

Mia: Of course, thank you so much. This has been amazing.